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Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:18 am
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Didn't the devs go out of their way to remove chain grabs in general? And not just remove them, but make the previous chain throws useless.

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Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:12 pm
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MaskofTruth wrote:
Didn't the devs go out of their way to remove chain grabs in general? And not just remove them, but make the previous chain throws useless.

The only Chibi's chaingrab was F-throw and still is to this day, I don't see major differences, considering he can angle the throws now, so I don't know what you are on about.

Ah, yes, forgot to include up-throw for fast-fallers, but it is kinda hard to execute.

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Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:02 am
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A rare thread bump by me

Can we talk about :chibirobo: vs :bowser: for a bit?

Chibi is a ranged character, with the newly added up-air and automatic air-blaster making him even more ranged that he already was. Bowser relies on attacks and a projectile which can be easily dodged, shielded and picked-up by Chibi, with the exception of offstage, Chibi fails really hard there. Once in Bowser's grasp, (*cough* Bowsercide *cough*), even DIing, it's hard to escape his combos and the fact that he transfers a lot of damage, as well. Chibi is a fast-faller and light-weight, making him an easy prey for Bowser.

Although, you can play defensively and almost never give a chance to let Bowser lure you into combos, by using ranged moves. Look at this recent replay for example, and yes I know that Bowser wasn't skilled enough, or I never gave him the chance to combo me but still, it speaks out for itself. https://www.dropbox.com/s/m76ituostgllk ... sfrec?dl=0

And then there's this - edgeguarding. Chibi has a ranged Dair consisting of enough knockback to kill Bowser at low percent, due to the low recovery of his up-b. Same goes to Bowser, his dair has spike and has N-spec with a lot of knockback which can prove devastating, although you still could recover at low percentage, medium percent could cause a problem. Not to mention Chibi's blaster can cancel the jump animation, forcing your opponent to use Up-p, which then you can freely use Dair.

So, I would give this the MU of 55-45 in Chibi's favor. If you have anything to argue with, don't agree with the MU or just have something to add(looking right at you, Skailer!), I will be more than pleased to listen.

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Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:10 pm
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I have been summoned :chibirobo:

Chibi vs. Bowser is incredibly volatile, at least as volatile as Chibi can be. He absolutely bodies Bowser in the neutral game thanks to Blaster, and Fair/Bair outrange just about anything Bowser can throw out with the exception of Fair, and DTilt(?). Not to mention that Bowser lacks disjoints, while virtually every spacing move that we have is disjointed. Then we have grab and FSmash and Bowser being not any faster than us and you got yourself an incredibly one-sided neutral game. Fireball is nice and all, but Chibi Blaster is much less laggy, much more mobile and much more effective overall. The neutral game is a huge part of why Chibi wins this MU in my opinion.


Punish game is easily as one-sided as the neutral game, although this time it favours Bowser. Bowser is big and heavy which means Chibi can get some stuff going, but at the end of a day it is a character without any real KO power against the heaviest char in the game. Meanwhile can tear Chibi apart in the case that he actually does get in and dish out 60%+ or take the stock right away. Bowser destroys anyone he lands a hit on, and Chibi with arguably the worst disadvantage stage in the game is definetly no exception.


Next up we have landing coverage. I already mentioned that a few times, but Chibi is fantastic at denying landings in this game, even moreso against a character with poor landing options such as Bowser. Im giving this its own section because it actually is super important for both characters - Chibi has his patented anti-airs such as Blaster, USmash (well, kinda), Fair, Up Grab, Fair etc, while Bowser can safely shark platforms with his huge UTilt to keep Chibi above him. Chibi does however have the added benefit of Toothbrush, which allows him to stall a bit in the air to throw off Bowser or just straight up go offstage to try and get ledge if high enough. The more platforms there are the easier it is for Bowser to land and to anti-air Chibi, but even on stages like BF Bowser should at the very least be forced to land in a bad spot, most likely after eating quite a bit of damage.


Offstage game is also pretty interesting. You already said that Bowser struggles against our Dair, and you are completely correct on this one. Dair absolutely bodies Bowser should he ever be forced to recover low (and if Dair missed due to a fadeback we still can grab ledge in time if we are fast enough). Offstage game in general is brutal for Bowser - Bair safely knocks him further away from the stage, Down Grab prevents him from sweetspotting the ledge, FSmash and FTilt punish Bowser for overshooting the ledge, DTilt does the same and can lead into Dair or Uair, Blaster can snipe his second jump, Dair, and then the aforementioned landing coverage if Bowser gets the chance of going high. Its really not fun.

On the flipside Bowser is actually a decent edgeguarder. Fair, Bair, Dair and Fireball are the biggest threats to Chibi. Fireball is a projectile with pretty ugly knockback if youre trying to recover, but is usually avoidable by smart Side B usage. Side B does however lose to Bowsers aerials due to it being quite linear, so Chibi will have to be very mix-up reliant. Blaster actually is super useful to get back onstage with enough height provided, and rising Fair/Uair from below the ledge can punish Bowser for being too greedy. Keeping your jump is also very important for Chibi for obvious reasons. However, eating an offstage Fair by Bowser will usually result in death above mid percents, so even with all the mixups Chibi has it is by no means free. Except for getting close to the ledge of course, Toothbrush is busted :chibirobo:



Stage choice is actually very important for this MU. Surprisingly enough Chibi will want to take Bowser to stages with few or no platforms in order to maximize his strong anti-air game and Bowsers large issues when being above his opponents. Likewise, having fewer platforms also weakens Bowsers anti-air game as he cannot clip platforms with his UTilt to catch Chibi above him. Of course UTilt is still a valid option, but having platforms really helps that move a lot.

Stage size is also important of course. Having a large stage such as DL means that the already lopsided neutral turns even more in Chibis favour, but it also emphazises our already poor KO power, while Bowser is going to kill us reliably early no matter what most of the time. Meanwhile, we can kill Bowser at... somewhat reasonable percentages if we take him to a stage such as Castle Siege or WW, but that hampers incredibly hard with our neutral game and will give Bowser extremely early KO opportunities. I would recommend larger stages for that reason. Chibi Castle (duh), Dream Land, FD/WR (ToS also works, but the offstage platforms make the stage much better for Bowser than FD) and Saturn Valley would be my preferred picks for this MU, with PC propably being my alternate pick if those are not available. Do not let a Bowser take you to Castle Siege, WarioWare or RR ever, youre going to get hurt a lot. Id also advice against SSZ because of the really low ceiling and Bowser Uair (and me hating the new SSZ in general), and BF also is an iffy pick imo.


tl;dr~ Never lose neutral or lose the stock, poke at Bowser as long as neccessary to kill him,even if that means 200%+ per stock. As long as he doesnt hit you youre fine, kinda like a more extreme version of Marth/Peach in Melee. Stay patient at all times, it will cost you otherwise. Dont overextend, stay safe. Maximize stage control, edgeguarding and landing coverage and try to avoid being above Bowser offstage. The key is to be so dominant in neutral and build enough of a lead that Bowser cannot close the gap on the instance that he does get in on you. 55:45 sounds like a fitting MU ratio.


Ill add the one replay of this MU I have below - tournament match against Gax's Bowser. I would put this as an extension, but for some reason the .ssfrec file type is not supported, so take this link instead: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/u1wb83b2b1okkwv/AACFXGtCtrZCARMPAQCD3aawa?dl=0

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Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:56 pm
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I think Chibi's challenge in edge-guarding is he has a lot of moves with upward trajectory or can be DI'd favorably up, so Bowser can recover high. While this obviously exposes him to Chibi's great air coverage, it's the minimized loss as Bowser can get over the stage and won't die to any of Chibi's AA options till late, which is a much better situation compared to a risky horizontal recovery situation.

I think the key for Bowser here is forcing Chibi to make poor choices to close the stock. Absolute patience is necessary for this to be a winning MU, otherwise you die. While Chibi may have more tools than Bowser to be successful in the MU, I'd actually put this 55:45 Bowser, primarily because mistakes for Chibi are extremely costly, but mistakes for Bowser are more forgiving. And given that Chibi is in for a long match unless he gets a Dair kill or good edgeguard, that's plenty of time to make mistakes.


Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:18 pm
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Played some really fun chibi ditto matches with someone called Skailler today. It's nice to see other chibi robo players. Don't see too many.

I think he is definitely better than in v0.9b. However I have some trouble with this:

Is there a way to consistently snap to the ledge with his upB. Sometimes I can, other times I just go a bit too far which leaves me open to attacks.

I really really miss being able to angle his blaster shots downwards, especially in the air. It was such a useful tool. Not sure why is was changed. Any explanation?

Some of his attacks really should KO sooner. :chibirobo:


Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:25 pm
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Why hello there :chibirobo: Chibi dittos are a blast, even if you failed to pick the only true stage for Chibi dittos :pikachu: GGs man. We Chibis are a rare breed indeed (but hey, we win tournaments with our "bottom 3" character)

BetaCopter is... iffy to sweetspot and requires very strict positioning and spacing. Just being able to sweetspot in the first place is a huge buff already though, considering that he literally could not do that in 0.9b at all. Really the only advice I can give you and anyone else is to practise that until you know by hard when to Up B in order to sweetspot.

You can still aim Air Blaster down, so Im not sure what you are getting at :chibirobo: And not being able to aim down on the ground is something that has been requested since the character was introduced in 0.9b. Come on devs, give us free angling already :chibirobo:


100% Agreed on the KO power, thats by far Chibis biggest hindrance as of now. Either that or his disgustingly awful disadvantage state.

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Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:19 am
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Heya, MarkS! Glad to see you here. I actually had some good matches with you, back then when I used my other name, RagingThunder.

TSF|Skylar wrote:
You can still aim Air Blaster down, so Im not sure what you are getting at :chibirobo:

I think he is unaware of the fact that you can hold Air Blaster and proceed to angle downwards while shooting. Also, not many people know that Chibi has auto Air-Blaster in BETA, some don't even know that he can pocket projectiles, I don't blame them :chibirobo:

You can still grab the ledge during the ending animation of Chibi's up-b, it's tricky, both for you and for your opponent. Your opponent may think that you are about to miss the sweetspot, when that's indeed not the case, giving you at least some time to come up with a punish.

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Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:56 am
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Please forgive for straying from your competitive discussion, but can Chibi 'pick up' Master Hand's 'finger missiles'?


Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:24 pm
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dragonballhero wrote:
Please forgive for straying from your competitive discussion, but can Chibi 'pick up' Master Hand's 'finger missiles'?

You don't have to worry, everyone was a casual player once :chibirobo:

I completed classic mode again with Chibi-Robo just to confirm whether I was correct or not. I was indeed right - the answer is no. They just go right into Chibi. Chibi still has some bugs capturing projectiles of those that aren't playable characters. He even throws pocketed projectiles weirdly. Maybe he'll get fixed in the new update, which I believe is coming soon.

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Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:23 am
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NASAPeepo wrote:
dragonballhero wrote:
Please forgive for straying from your competitive discussion, but can Chibi 'pick up' Master Hand's 'finger missiles'?

You don't have to worry, everyone was a casual player once :chibirobo:

I completed classic mode again with Chibi-Robo just to confirm whether I was correct or not. I was indeed right - the answer is no. They just go right into Chibi. Chibi still has some bugs capturing projectiles of those that aren't playable characters. He even throws pocketed projectiles weirdly. Maybe he'll get fixed in the new update, which I believe is coming soon.


Thanks for checking! I really appreciate it! This being said, wouldn't it be real handy for Chibi to be able to pocket those things?


Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:16 pm
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I can't seem to figure out what :chibirobo: 's down-B does.

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Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:22 pm
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Ravin_Raven wrote:
I can't seem to figure out what :chibirobo: 's down-B does.

It's like Villager's Pocket, but can't grab items. :sandbag:

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Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:23 pm
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bump

Yes, its that time of the day again. Skailler ranting about Chibi, wee :chibirobo: Or not quite actually. The Chibicord has brainstormed over the course of the few past days to try and make one "official" collaborative wishlist for Patch 1.0.3 - by the Chibi community for the Chibi community so to speak. I think it turned out pretty nicely, so here it is! Keep in mind that not neccessarily every single Chibi player agreed with every single one of these changes, but we rather went for a majority stance here. Also note that while getting every single of these changes at once would be sick without a doubt, that doesnt mean that we will riot if we do not get every single thing we said here in exact our way, or if a few (more) of those dont make it into the game at all. Probably. Below I will present our results, and below that I will use a neat little box to properly discuss these changes and try to make it clear why we want certain things the way we do.


Shoutouts go to everyone who participated in discussion, namely Drarky, Lil_Boonk, SwagSpooky, .jamie, cakefan, Kahila and myself.


"Official" Collaborative Chibicord Wishlist for Patch 1.0.3

  • Up Air KB gets re-tooled to actually be a kill move. I think this one was by far the most obvious.
  • Up Smash hitboxes restored to be in the middle of 0.9b and Beta Up Smash
  • Forward Smash can no longer be teched mid-attack by grounded opponents
  • While charging Down Smash, Chibi does not push opponents away anymore
  • Back Air KB restored to make it a proper kill move again
  • Fix Down B (this is going to be one heck of a long explanation)
  • Back Throw cannot be DI'ed as much anymore
  • Chibi now has a Zair
  • Toothbrush revamped as a recovery move
  • Chibi Copter is tweaked to have slightly more KB. Additionally the move is now a single strong hit throughout instead of a multihit.
  • Slightly increased ground speed
  • Telly confetti taunt


Not ordered by relevance btw.


Now onto the fun part where I explain all this stuff and try to not rant too much.


guess what: show
  • Up Air being a kill move should not need an explanation at this point, so heres the short version - Uair not being a kill move anymore nuked Chibis KO power incredibly hard and made the character much worse than neccessary. Easily the biggest issue of the character. Also we were promised a Plug of Justice, so I think its time to get back to that. second Knee my a**
  • Up Smash is not talked about too often aside from the few times where I keep complaining about it actually. In 0.9b Up Smash easily was one of the best anti-airs in the entire game thanks to a massive disjointed hitbox which admittedly was laughaby huge. This made it by far the preferred option to cover landings with whenever possible, or to hit confirm after sniping a landing with Chibi Blaster(s). Back then FSmash and especially DSmash were also worse moves overall with either being a pseudo-hurtbox or not killing nearly early enough, so yeah that helped.

    Beta Up Smash comes along and the hitbox has been shrunken down to the size of Melee Bowsers tournament wins. This makes the move almost useless as an anti-air without extremly precise spacing, which was by far its best quality outside of its practically nonexistant startup. Not only that, but FSmash is now by far the preferred followup due to it now being a fully fledged disjoint without backfiring, Down Smash now straight up murders people so that works as a hard read, but then there are also the new Up Air, Up Grab and to a lesser extent the still enourmous hitbox of Fair that all outclass Up Smash. It did get a boost in killing power which is nice and all, but does not fix the move being stripped of its actual use. Noone is asking for 0.9b hitboxes because those wre kinda busted, but Beta Up Smash is the other extreme. A nice middleground inbetween both would be an easy fix and be a massive boon in Chibis toolkit.
  • Forward Smash, despite not working as a hurtbox if opposing disjoints are involved anymore, still has a major flaw. As you most likely have already read by now, grounded opponents can now tech out of it mid-attack. Why is this even a thing? This issue majorly messes with its primary use as a spacing tool, as a smart opponent can now (once again) use FSmash to their advantage and get a free punish after getting hit by it. Please fix :chibirobo: Oh yeah, and FSmash sometimes semispikes offstage opponents, and it does so brutally. Im not sure if thats intentional or not, but it kinda feels silly.
  • Down Smash, as of 1.0.2, is a friggin monster with a tiny little problem: It is basically impossible to actually hit the move against an opponent that is not s*** at teching or has the most predictable landing/recovery of the century. I completely understand that you cant make the move super easy to confirm without breaking the character, and noone is asking for that. However, if I cant even charge it after a shieldbreak without Chibis mere presence pushing the opponent out into the sourspot then something is going very wrong. As such, not pushing opponents while we are charging DSmash would be a very nice quality of life buff, and potentially even make Jab Reset -> DSmash a bit more lenient. And before anyone chimes in that this is not possible or should not be done because it is unlike anything in the game, Chibi Blaster does already exactly this.
  • Bair was rumoured to not be a kill move in Beta anymore all the way back in 2015. Even back then people were opposed to that idea, but we didnt hear anything about it anymore and thus thought that it was nothing that was actually going to happen. Beta drops and Bair infact has been ruined as a KO move. Huh. Our best guess on this was that Bair is now supposed to be more combo oriented instead of just killing people, but that didnt exactly work out. It doesnt combo any better than it did before, and the nerf just so happened to nuke what was once Chibis second best KO move after Uair. Chibi lacking in the KO department is no secret at this point, and I dont think I have to explain why the character needs its kill power back, especially with the universally larger blastzones.
  • Pick Up. Hoo boy. Lets try and keep this short. Down B is supposed to give Chibi a strong way to deal with enemy projectiles, and on paper it does work out pretty nicely. In reality however, it does not. Pick Up not working on items for instance despite being nothing more than a worse Villager Pocket for instance is something noone has understood so far to my knowledge, and makes the move pretty much nonexistant in casual play. Also would help with the Pac/Peach MUs, but shhh :chibirobo: The big elephant in the room however is the sheer buggyness of the move of course.
    Something that was not quite fixed from 0.9b is that many projectiles tend to have quite the weird behaviour upon release, most notably what can only be described as Chibi somehow ignoring the basic laws of gravity and managing to make the stuff he released move diagonally upwards. Really screws Pick Up over outside of a few niche uses and really doesnt need to be a thing.

    Another bad trait that has remained during the transition to Beta is that most of the time, the projectile disappears almost instantly just after being chucked out. The most prominent examples of this are spacie blasters, where they barely move a pixel before vanishing in thin air. We are not quite sure as to why this happens, but our best guess is that the projectile does not get its remaining active frames reset while Chibi carries it around.

    And lastly, even it it worked perfectly and had no bugs or issues with range whatsoever, Pick Up still has a major drawback - it is 100% useless in a chunk of MUs, either due to redunancy (Fox laser camping does not get stopped by Pick Up, and Chibi Blaster beats Falco lasers in the projectile war) or the opponent simply not having a projectile at all. While it is a great third taunt in these scenarios, a special move shouldnt exactly be nothing more than a taunt. Thus I came up with a solution attempt that is quite controversial, but hear me out: What if grounded Pick Up worked like a regular grab ontop of its "yo fam catch this" trait? Only on the grounded Down B, and if it connected with an opponent it would simply work like a normal grab, allowing Chibi to do his four throws as any other character. This would make the move far more useful in virtually every MU, and also help somewhat with Chibis piss poor OoS game if you could do JC Down B. The grabrange wouldnt be any further than a normal grab and nothing amazing in general, but it would be there and it would help a bunch. At least consider this idea :chibirobo:
  • Back Throw, believe it or not, is one of the strongest kill throws in this game as of now in terms of raw KB. Sadly, it also is easily one of the worst kill throws in the games, as proper DI allows the opponent to survive for much, much longer. Such is the way of DI of course, but Back Throw gets nuked by DI so hard that an additional 80%+ are required to take the stock, even on medium sized stages. This wouldnt be as bad if Back Throw and Down Throw were super fast throws that would force a 50/50 mindgame everytime Chibi got a grab (which in itself would also be kinda iffy), but it is not a fast throw by any means, easily reactable by any opponent that has even slightly more reaction time than a squirrel that got run over by a truck. As such, Back Throw as a kill move is not a thing outside of a short intelligence shutdown or super hard conditioning. I am not going to dvelve into "our char cant kill for s***" AGAIN, so lets keep it at that. Of course DI should still make a difference on the move, just a weaker one. Do it for Chibi :chibirobo:
  • A Zair is something that has been requested since Day 1 of 0.9b, and for good reason. It would make sense considering that Chibi already has a tether grab, and it would provide a nice buff to his spacing game, and Chibi loves his spacing. To avoid the move being too good and completely outclassing stuff like Blaster, FSmash, Fair and more, we agreed on having it not too much longer than Bair and with a much thinner hitbox of course. It would simply knock people away horizontally with a semi-weak 4% poke that lacks any real followups (maybe in conjunction with Pick Up). The idea of adding a high hitstun sweetspot at the very tip that reliably links into KO moves and acts as an amazing setup in general has also been discussed, but not fully agreed on. Zair in general has been the most debated topic in general, but most of us believe it would be a change for the better. A Zair would help Chibi cover fast approaches better, it would be a decent poke in general which definetly wouldnt harm his playstyle, and it would allow him to better space without having to commit to either a limited hitbox (Jab1, DTilt) or kinda meh frame data (Grab, FSmash, Fair to some extent) without combining high speed, high range and good launching capabilities to avoid it being too good. It would also be another recovery buff which Chibi doesnt need, but we will get back to that later. Or right now actually.
  • Side B is incredibly important for recovery, allowing Chibi to traverse long distances while still keeping access to his other rescources, namely double jump and Up B. That is the issue with the move however, it does its job too good actually. Toothbrush covers immense horizontal ground (or rather, air) at the loss of barely any height, and any height loss is neglegible as long as Chibi keeps his jump (and even without a jump, BetaCopter goes still far enough to at least grab the ledge). It makes recovering kinda braindead - especially going high - as all you have to do is hold Side B and release it in time to avoid getting stuffed, which is admittedly pretty easy to do if the Chibi is intent of just charging at you straight on. Got send offstage? Just Side B! Got hit again? Just Side B! Got poked at and send slightly back/close the the blastzone for the bazillionth time in a row? Just Side B - as long as the pullback on startup doesnt accidentally kill you, Side B is the equivalent of a "get out of jail for free" card and in all honesty is just poorly designed in this aspect. 0.9b MK also had something similar in his glide, but that stripped him nearly defenseless and forced freefall afterwards. Toothbrush does neither - a proper stall by simply releasing the button for a moment easily can mess with any edgeguard attempt, it can be repeated infinitely until you get back and there is no drawback to the move such as losing your jump, gradually losing more and more height or entering freefall.

    Toothbrush needs a revamp for the sake of intuitive and good game design. Add a "fuel" system that makes Chibi gain gradually less distance and fall faster over time, limit him to 1 useage of Side B per airtime or limit him to X amounts of boosts or something. Just change it please.
  • Chibi Copter seems to be victim of a major misconception. People seemingly think that it is a "kill move". It is not. At least not a good one. For starters, its KB is somewhat lacking, even at the sweetspot, which kinda goes against the entire purpose of it being a kill move. I fully understand the fear of it being too strong considering it is supposed to carry people into the heavens and then launch them, but as of now the move is too weak for its own good. Speaking of carrying people, thats also an issue at times. Granted ever since 1.0.1 it has become much easier to connect all the hits instead of it just not linking at all, but even then opponents sometimes fall out when it doesnt feel like they should. SDI or something else? Regardless, to avoid this particular issue our request is to change Chibi Copter into a single hit move instead of being multihit. Of course sex kick properties would apply to avoid a situation where the very last pixel on the very last frame barely scratches and then KOs you.
  • Ground speed buff also would be a nice quality of life change that would make Chibis life just a bit easier. While being kinda slow is a weakness of the character and should remain considering his range n stuff, being a tad faster would be invaluable in many MUs, most notably of course against characters that give Chibi trouble because they either both outspeed and outrange him (Marth, Lloyd, Ichigo for instance) or they outspeed him so hard with crazy framedata and high speed that he doesnt even get to properly start his gameplan without putting himself at a major risk for simply trying to space (most notably Fox ofc, but there are other chars as well).
  • A taunt that involves Telly throwing confetti and Chibi posing/celebrating is quintessential and doesnt need any reasoning ever. Obviously the single most important change in video game history.

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Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:18 pm
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Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:07 pm
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Country: Brazil (br)
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MGN Username: MEGA12312
Currently Playing: MH3U SSF2
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A quick question
How does Chibi's up-b work?
Seems very inconsistent with the height it gain, sometimes going not high at all and sometimes seemingly going form the bottom blastzone aaaall the way to beyond the top one.

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Honestly, i don't really have a main.
Tails is nice. And marth. So i guess i like... combos?
And floatyness i guess.

Wow they actually fixed Ness' throw. kinda

PICHU HYPEexcept not yet /:|


Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:07 pm
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