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Black Mage
http://forums.mcleodgaming.com/viewtopic.php?f=119&t=44780
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Author:  darkrinorex [ Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Black Mage

:blackmage: IS SO FREAKING COOOOLLL!!

I didn't know that when you fully charge f smash, down smash and up smash happens to be so much better then when it's not fully charged (besides more damage/ K.O potential).

His full charge down smash covers the entire stage, and his f smash i think is almost the entire stage (though it disappears then comes back again and again.

You can come up with so many creative setups with :blackmage: , After finding out about his fully charged f smash, I don't think people can camp him out any more lol (maybe).

Idk if he was already like this in 9b, but seeing him being able to down smash the entire plat form or stage he is on, and able to fully f smash when can go far and reach high, I might start using him as a secondary.

Man, I really hope to see someone perfect him and use him in more tourneys, cause I honestly think, he could potentially raise in the tiers way more.

This is just my opinion tho, no need for hate. :colonthree:

Edit: I also love his dair (when the reaper comes out) setups.

Edit 2: HE CAN POCKET HIS NEUTRAL B LMAOOOOOOOOO. Just hold shield while maybe at the 5th or 6th number I think and just move around till you feel like you need to witch time LUL.

Author:  Gudako's Insanity [ Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black Mage

the full charge is like, since forever, man.

Author:  Jan_Solo [ Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Black Mage

Can we just have the angled Meteo back?

Author:  Hazardly15 [ Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black Mage

Man i love when i D-air (Reaper) then throw them off stage, and the Reaper spikes them to their doom

Author:  svladcjelli42 [ Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black Mage

Resetting Blizzaga's location with a meteor is semi-nerfed because you don't get an extra one anymore, but it still basically works. The nerf (was it intentional?) causes your Blizzaga to disappear completely if you fire an aerial meteor too high to reset the ice.

Author:  TheRebornBowser [ Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black Mage

I want his old Bthrow back.
I can't see why Jigglypuff can have the best kill throw in the game while Black Mage can't even have an average one.

Author:  Ravin_Raven [ Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black Mage

TheRebornBowser wrote:
I want his old Bthrow back.
I can't see why Jigglypuff can have the best kill throw in the game while Black Mage can't even have an average one.


:jigglypuff: has a kill throw?
:blackmage: 's Bthrow got nerfed? I thought it got buffed.

Author:  Jan_Solo [ Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black Mage

Ravin_Raven wrote:
TheRebornBowser wrote:
I want his old Bthrow back.
I can't see why Jigglypuff can have the best kill throw in the game while Black Mage can't even have an average one.


:jigglypuff: has a kill throw?
:blackmage: 's Bthrow got nerfed? I thought it got buffed.


You clearly haven't played either, have you?

Jigglypuff technically has the second strongest F-Throw, although Sandbag's is VERY DI-able

And try using Back Throw at the center of FD against Mario at about 140%

It would kill in 0.9b, it won't in Beta

Edit: sorry for sounding rude, I was joking with the first statement

Author:  Bedoop [ Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black Mage

Jan_Solo wrote:
although Sandbag's is VERY DI-able

This is true and I dislike it very much :sandbag:

Author:  TheRebornBowser [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Black Mage

Jigglypuff's Fthrow > Ness' Bthrow :blackmage:
Alright back to the topic of Black Mage.

Author:  Jan_Solo [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Black Mage

TheRebornBowser wrote:
Jigglypuff's Fthrow > DK Btrow >>> Ness' Bthrow >> BM's BThrow
Alright back to the topic of Black Mage.


Done

Also, wasn't Haste supposed to be a kill move?
It still kills slightly later than B Throw

Actually, 0.9b Haste kills almost as early as Beta Back Throw, so he technically doesn't have any reliable kill throws

Author:  Ravin_Raven [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black Mage

Jan_Solo wrote:
Ravin_Raven wrote:
TheRebornBowser wrote:
I want his old Bthrow back.
I can't see why Jigglypuff can have the best kill throw in the game while Black Mage can't even have an average one.


:jigglypuff: has a kill throw?
:blackmage: 's Bthrow got nerfed? I thought it got buffed.


You clearly haven't played either, have you?

Jigglypuff technically has the second strongest F-Throw, although Sandbag's is VERY DI-able

And try using Back Throw at the center of FD against Mario at about 140%

It would kill in 0.9b, it won't in Beta

Edit: sorry for sounding rude, I was joking with the first statement


I know that you're joking, but I want to make this clear: I main both characters.

I can see that there is some concern over :blackmage: 's kill moves, but his throws are all super useful for starting and continuing combos.
Back throw is a really good dunk setup. Just toss the opponent over the side of the stage, jump up and Dair. It's a free gimp, really.
Forward throw is good when you have the opponent set with the reaper effect, so that you can once again toss them off the side, and let the reaper do the rest of the work. It's not an effective gimp setup since it doesn't throw high enough, but it still throws the character at a relatively low angle, meaning that they'll have to try really hard to recover, and they'll have to do it quickly to escape the reaper, which probably won't happen.
Up throw can follow into Uair, and it's also a good combo stretcher after releasing a charged Fsmash. Just run past the line, grab the opponent, Up throw, and they'll go right into the lightning. It probably won't kill them, but it'll do a lot of damage.
Down throw has an obvious purpose, dealing more damage, but it's also like a more tame version of Back throw. If your opponent is at too high a percentage for the back throw setup, Down throw is an excellent subsitute.

As for kill moves:
Uncharged Fsmash has long active frames and kills at about 100%. Great for reads and catching your opponent off guard.
Charged Usmash is also good for surprises, as a lot of people underestimate the range on this attack. The side fires trap the opponent into the main hitbox, which kills at 130% and does lots of damage.
Fair and Bair are kill moves, believe it or not. Both kill at 110%, regardless of sweet spot.
Dash attack kills at 90%, and has super armor.

TL;DR: Stop seeing the throws as kill moves, like in 0.9b, and start seeing potential for combos with them. Use smashes, aerials, and dash attacks when you want to kill.
PS: I don't remember Back Throw killing in 0.9b, I still honestly think it was buffed, since it didn't allow much combo potential, and still couldn't kill early enough back then.

Author:  Ravin_Raven [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black Mage

Now I actually came here to talk about Stop. I think that move is completely useless, since it has too much start up lag to be a good reaction move or reflector, and it also moves your opponent away from you, making punishes difficult. Someone in the samus change thread was very confused by my comment there about how useless stop was, so I'd like to hear what everyone thinks stop is good for.

I know that you can charge stop, then shield to keep your charge until the next time you use it, but like I said, still too much start up lag to break combos or surprise opponents, and it still moves the opponent away from you, preventing punishes.

Author:  Tailsis<3 [ Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Black Mage

Ravin_Raven wrote:
Now I actually came here to talk about Stop. I think that move is completely useless, since it has too much start up lag to be a good reaction move or reflector, and it also moves your opponent away from you, making punishes difficult. Someone in the samus change thread was very confused by my comment there about how useless stop was, so I'd like to hear what everyone thinks stop is good for.

I know that you can charge stop, then shield to keep your charge until the next time you use it, but like I said, still too much start up lag to break combos or surprise opponents, and it still moves the opponent away from you, preventing punishes.

Don't forget you can SDI from it.

Author:  Jan_Solo [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Black Mage

Ravin_Raven wrote:
I don't remember Back Throw killing in 0.9b


It kills Mario at 100% near the ledge back in 0.9b, that's earlier than Ness' Beta B-Throw

Now it kills at about 130%, not the worst kill throw, but that's also the time when Chibi's U-Air kills, and no competitive Chibi Main thinks that 130% is a decent range for kill %, even Chibi has a stronger B-Throw

And mind you, BM had better U Throw combos in 9b, especially when compared to Beta where NAir deals 8% on average and UAir having terrible hitboxes

D Throw also launches farther, which removed it's usefulness as a combo starter and lost it's Chain Grab capabilities

F Throw is still essentially the same, a decent launching Throw that doesn't kill, but puts the opponent at a disadvantaged state

Also, Back throw dunk set ups were already in 0.9b, you speak like it's a new thing that was impossible before

tl;dr: He lost a kill throw, a combo starter throw, and a combo starter throw with decent follow-ups for... a half-decent combo throw and a half-decent combo throw with terrible follow-ups

As for kill moves...
F-Smash is strong already and it got buffed, that's fine, kills earlier, I like it
U-Smash... kills later

Also, what is this about FAir being a kill move? Unless you're saying the Training CPU has godlike DI, it kills very late (about 150%)

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