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Sandbag 
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Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:46 pm
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If SandDash wasn't Down-Special, rapid WaveDashes / WaveLanding would be much more difficult. You would have to release the down-button every time into neutral if you want to WaveDash repeatedly, adding extra execution-precision needed; crippling SandBag's movement even more than it already is. You being able to hold down and just slide your finger from 'Jump' to/or 'B' makes it as rhythmatic as WaveDashing in Melee, while being simpler to boot.

Bedoop wrote:
And using it at the flick of the wrist is a lot harder than it seems given Sanddash's timing (If you're too slow, you don't move anywhere at all and just wasted your main method of recovery) and trying to do it on a Keyboard is hell :chibirobo:
Are you seriously complaining about precision on keyboard? :donkeykong:

snidbert64 wrote:
Why exactly does this trick not work for me?
Most likely keystroke limitation. Your keyboard might not being letting you hit those two keys at the same time because they're too close to one another.

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Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:10 pm
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Zalozis wrote:
If SandDash wasn't Down-Special, rapid WaveDashes / WaveLanding would be much more difficult. You would have to release the down-button every time into neutral if you want to WaveDash repeatedly, adding extra execution-precision needed; crippling SandBag's movement even more than it already is. You being able to hold down and just slide your finger from 'Jump' to/or 'B' makes it as rhythmatic as WaveDashing in Melee, while being simpler to boot.

Wavedashing as Sandbag is useless.
Very, very useless.
Any sort of movement option given by it you can suppliment by just crouching and it's infinitely more useful
And using it as a wavedash in the air, if you use it at the wrong time you cause Sandbag to fall on his face which is a "Please, jab lock me and get me offstage" sign in big neon letters
Sanddash is only useful for recovery, in which case Up is the only thing you really need whilst Left/Right are nice for momentum shenanigans
Using it for Wavedashing (It's supposed purpose) is not a good thing to do at all. It's useless and you shouldn't do it. :sandbag:
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Are you seriously complaining about precision on keyboard? :donkeykong:

Yes, I am.
Because unlike actual controllers, Up and Down being next to eachother (And easily being pressed at the same time if you have big fingers, and keystroke limitation exists) with absolutely 0 transition at all is not fun
It's useful for some things and not exactly useful for others
Stuff that relies on the direction you press is very important in this case, and doing a flick-motion on a Keyboard isn't the easiest thing in the world to do since you can't flick BUTTONS :bomberman:

so basically;
either buff the wavedash purpose of the wavedash move to be an actual movement option and not move-5-pixels-forward-collect-200-dollars-and-a-bit-of-startup/end-lag-because-you-pressed-B-when-just-pressing-Down-is-fine
or remap it to neutral special and label it as a recovery move instead of a wavedash because that's it's in-game purpose anyway, it's amazing at recovery and that's about it

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Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:32 am
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Bedoop wrote:
or remap it to neutral special and label it as a recovery move instead of a wavedash
That wouldn't improve the move or SandBag though.
Bedoop wrote:
either buff the wavedash purpose of the wavedash move to be an actual movement option
This would.
Bedoop wrote:
And using it as a wavedash in the air, if you use it at the wrong time you cause Sandbag to fall on his face which is a "Please, jab lock me and get me offstage" sign in big neon letters
So, don't miss-time it? . . .

One of SandBag's big weaknesses in neutral is the inablity to turn-cancel because he doesn't have a run animation. So even turning around during rapid Dash-Cancels has the few frames of start-up from him hopping forward make him sometimes slide in the direction he was going. Even though his ground speed is pretty fast, he can't weave in-and-out of space in neutral to punish. I would make his hops forward act like any other initial-dash, just without a run animation so he still has to use Dash-Cancenl to achieven his max-speed, but should be ability to turn-around sooner.

Something I would be to making SandDash be an 8-way dash. Make is so he can go diagonal upwards so he he close to the stage, doesn't have to always Side-B to get pass the ledge. And make his left/right doesn't not complete straight forward, but goes like a low-angle forward so he gets different WaveDash spacing lengths between forward & down-forward. His recovery is just a bit too predictable for a character that can't grab ledge.

Is SandBag's movement got cleaned up, that auto-buffs his neutral-game, approach options, and ability to achieve punishes. He feels like he already has the tools in his short, high damaging combos, but he lacks all the necessary means to get in to use them. I think you can keep preservation in all of his absurd design traits if he just had slightly more movement to utility his strenghts better

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Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:06 pm
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Zalozis wrote:
Bedoop wrote:
or remap it to neutral special and label it as a recovery move instead of a wavedash
That wouldn't improve the move or SandBag though.

It would improve the ease of the move. So yes, it would buff it.

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Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:12 am
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Tailsis<3 wrote:
Zalozis wrote:
Bedoop wrote:
or remap it to neutral special and label it as a recovery move instead of a wavedash
That wouldn't improve the move or SandBag though.

It would improve the ease of the move. So yes, it would buff it.

Not necessarily, it just makes it easier to pull off but it's still the same thing so there's no change and there's no point since nothing changes...

Although a little buff on the "wavedash" would be nice

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Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:14 am
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We got buffs!! :sandbag: / ' , - *

Basic Jist;
Forward Smash: Damage increased (14% > 16%) / Angle raised (35d > 45d)
Dash Attack: Base knockback increased (30 > 40)
Forward Aerial: Knockback scaling increased (100 > 110)
Down Smash: 2nd hit knockback scaling increased (84 > 100) / Sandbag can now do his best Smash 4 Charizard V Cloud impression
Up Smash: Weight-Based knockback decreased (140 > 130 First Portion ; 110 > 105 Second Portion, rest unchanged) / Sweetspot base knockback decreased (80 > 55) / Sweetspot knockback scaling increased (69 > 100)
Jab: Knockback scaling increased (117 > 120)
Down Throw: Hitlag set to 3, Self-Hitlag set to 1 (Not sure what this really means, but DThrow > Nair is still free at literally any percent so)
Down Special: Not changed. The wavedash is still s***. :sandbag:

Discuss, for you 3 people who actually use Sandbag other than me. :chibirobo:

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Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:24 am
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Isn't the Forward Smash more of a nerf due to the angle change? Looks like we got better kill options bois!

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Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:16 am
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I just noticed that you can do a little slide while up smashing immediately after a sanddash

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Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:09 pm
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:sandbag: :sandbag: :sandbag: :sandbag: :sandbag: :sandbag: :sandbag: :sandbag: :sandbag: :sandbag: :sandbag: :sandbag:
:sandbag: :sandbag: Up-B resets his DOWN-B for better recovery :sandbag: :sandbag: :sandbag: :sandbag: :sandbag: :sandbag:


Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:52 pm
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So as you all know, :sandbag: is a decent fighter. But what if I told you he was S tier? Not in regular fights, but in sandbag soccer. Ironically, the best character ive tried out so far for this minigame is :sandbag: . His sandgrab is exceptional for getting the "ball" to the other goal, as well as getting the opponent away from the ball. His Bob-omb toss can also be used if the "ball" is already at your goal, to knock it away, which is fine as health regenerates after every goal.

As a side note, would anyone help make suggestions towards a tier list for Sandbag Soccer?
Use reply on this comment.

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Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:04 am
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Yeah, it has a very good goal methods. But i don't know if it's really the best character in arena sandbag soccer.
In my case i had best results with :isaac: and :tails: . But i cannot make a sandbag soccer tier list. Will be bored for me

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Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:29 pm
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:sandbag: :sandbag: :sandbag: :sandbag: Fear my :sandbag: army!


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Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:45 pm
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what a good contribution to the thread

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Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:28 am
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@Vanilla Why, thank you.

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Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:50 am
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Hating on Bieber in 2018? Now I really feel old

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Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:07 pm
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