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Samus 
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Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:42 pm
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i dont know about the rest but when you do 24%with any fair and not even a heavy that to be fixed :ichigo: .




funny thing
:bowser: Fair: 15%
:donkeykong: fair: 14%





:captainfalcon: (knee):18%

:samus: Fair: 24%

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Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:25 pm
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Samus has been a heavyweight in virtually every Smash game. In this game she has a weight stat of 110 making her the 4th heaviest character in the game behind Bowser (120), DK (115) and Yoshi (111). Falcon for instance "only" weighs 104 units. You arent wrong about Fair damage output being stupid though :chibirobo:

Random question about Fair changes - assuming that the giant hitboxes of the move get toned down to a more reasonable size, would you prefer a damage nerf to something like, 13ish and keep the linking, or keep the damage values but make the move next to impossible to properly link?



And to join in in the discussion of Beta Samus style vs. 0.9b Samus style, Im actually with Masky here. While I stopped playing 0.9b Samus pretty early on, I can confirm that playing against Samus was usually something I was looking forward to. My sets/friendlies with Masky were some of the most fun matches I played despite it being laggy as all hell (both pre- and post TASky, mind you) and the little room for error you had because. Now whenever I see someone pick Samus I just roll my eyes and lose a lot of motivation. Its just not fun anymore because now every scrub under the sun can just spam Fair and a f*** 37% transcendent projectile like a madman and feel amazing. Quite ironic considering I am a diehard Melee Samus main, but Beta Samus is both a killjoy to play against and just incredibly unfun to play as. I mean if you really want her to stay true to her zoning oriented archetype I totally get that, but it was executed rather poorly in my opinion.

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Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:08 am
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MaskofTruth wrote:
Gudako's Insanity wrote:
so what you said in your 3)...
MaskofTruth wrote:
catch people by surprise with a relatively strong hit which could kill at 90% with bad DI.

Which means it's actually broken and isn't useless at all, so no thanks.
so i guess your other points from what i said is pretty good, so i guess i will just focus what you think of the movements.

it wasn't broken at all. not even OP. just a slightly underwhelming balanced move... Why are you arguing with me so much if you apparently didn't even know what 9b samus did?
Gudako's Insanity wrote:
UAir, which won't be that broken if the devs did fix cs (yes i'm implying they will do that), but of course that's a good point.
BAir, but still useful for edgeguarding, dunno about the sweetspot but is it the one that does 15%? If yes, then it still exists.
NAir, lol NAir till out of the stage, also her only useful forward damage if fair is reduced to her 9b

Another problem induced by the cancer Fair, the complete removal of a move.
Beta Fair is simply the only move you want to use. nair. Uair. Bair. Dair. Why do any of them when you can simply Fair->Chargeshot?
Gudako's Insanity wrote:
UpB, it doesn't change anything that much anyway, so no going into that.
DownB, a buff and a nerf, which makes it somehow better, only thing i will agree on is it's duration and the only thing i will disagree on is skill required to morphslide,
hell can you actually even morphslide in 9b? if you can, how far does it take you? (also lol Perfect Shield Drop is also easy to do, not sure why would you complain about that, and luckily for you you can't do s*** instantly as well.)

UpB was buffed to make it possible to recover if you whiff a Zair recovery. Zair buffed as well to make recovery easier, so the UpB buff is just egregious recovery that she doesn't need.
the DownB nerf/buff is the same type of thing as the Fair buff. it just holds your hand when it doesn't need to.
and I disagree with your statement that it is a better move for it; it increases the duration of which you are vulnerable and you have to 100% commit to your choice before you press downB otherwise you won't go far at all. In general this new version is not competitive outside of bombcollision->Dair or such.
https://gfycat.com/ChillyNegligibleHare
Gudako's Insanity wrote:
UTilt, isn't this "sourspot" you're talking about is when the enemy is on the ground? Well other than that it's pretty good and doesn't need to be changed back to 9b (plus she already has 3 moves for launching for God's sake we don't need another one)

DSmash, but doesn't that mean it can connect to many moves, making it a good combo starter and a good comboer?

Beta Utilt doesn't have a sweet or sourspot its all teh same hitbox
Beta Dsmash doesn't set up for anything because of the endlag it has, its just a black sheep smash attack now, just like luffy's Fsmash. and Bandana dee's everything

Gudako's Insanity wrote:
Meaning this air acceleration nerf actually makes her less broken, I don't mind it at all.
Her Movement Speed being decreased is fine, it increases her chance of being pressured which makes her less broken, also even if you like it or not her morph slide fix this issue
Yeah and that morph duration (it must be the reason why it's easier to do morph slide) still makes her less broken and more open while using DownB, you should see the bad things while looking at the good things as well ya know.

You're comparing things wrong here. Just wrong.
You're thinking of how things go onto Beta samus with all she has now, this is a bad thing to do as we are discussing Beta samus style vs 9b samus style
In 9b her mobility was perfect as it balanced out with her general range(outside of Ftilt lol that was HUGE)
Gudako's Insanity wrote:
thanks for not being an a****** to me though even though i was being an a******, love you man.

if I knew you IRL i'd probably have strangled you for saying the things you did. Not to death, but enough.

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to be fair you told me that i don't even provide evidence so here's why i'm here.

and why would "CancerFair" to Chargeshot be the only thing you will use if that combo is actually escapable at low and even high percents?

for the UpB again, I see, I have no choice but to agree to that don't I?



9b Utilt also doesn't have a sweetspot and sourspot too though.
DSmash, it actually has enough hitstun to connect to anything.

what? we were not even talking about playstyles, we were talking about what they have, you didn't start out the argument because of they're styles but on what they have.

wow rude still love you though


But eh, if projectiles aren't actually transcendent Beta Samus won't be a problem all the time though.
The only thing she needs is a damage nerf for FAir and CS, and that's literally it, everything else is fine.

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Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:16 am
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Gudako's Insanity wrote:
But eh, if projectiles aren't actually transcendent Beta Samus won't be a problem all the time though.
The only thing she needs is a damage nerf for FAir and CS, and that's literally it, everything else is fine.



She'll need a s*** load of buffs once those things magically happens of course. Because she'll go from high to low real fast. They took all her good moves away and those are her current good ones. Quick fix. Pull back some of her old kit. Like Bair.

Jeffdebrine wrote:
i dont know about the rest but when you do 24%with any fair and not even a heavy that to be fixed :ichigo: .




funny thing
:bowser: Fair: 15%
:donkeykong: fair: 14%





:captainfalcon: (knee):18%

:samus: Fair: 24%


Funny thing is... Theirs kills earlier. Samus doesn't kill until 200. So I'm trying to see what's funny here?

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Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:57 am
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Godreaper wrote:
Gudako's Insanity wrote:
But eh, if projectiles aren't actually transcendent Beta Samus won't be a problem all the time though.
The only thing she needs is a damage nerf for FAir and CS, and that's literally it, everything else is fine.



She'll need a s*** load of buffs once those things magically happens of course. Because she'll go from high to low real fast. They took all her good moves away and those are her current good ones. Quick fix. Pull back some of her old kit. Like Bair.

Jeffdebrine wrote:
i dont know about the rest but when you do 24%with any fair and not even a heavy that to be fixed :ichigo: .




funny thing
:bowser: Fair: 15%
:donkeykong: fair: 14%





:captainfalcon: (knee):18%

:samus: Fair: 24%


Funny thing is... Theirs kills earlier. Samus doesn't kill until 200. So I'm trying to see what's funny here?


Because those moves, built TO kill, do less damage than a move that can combo into itself at low percents. She wracks up damage way too fast for a move so safe and reliable. No one suggested that Fair killing was the issue; the fact that it outclasses even the strongest of Fairs with the speed/safety it has is dumb.

Unfortunately, the more I play online, the worse it gets. She's basically devolved into dash attack, up tilt, Fair, CS. Nothing else in her kit matters to close stocks and deal damage. Especially with even a little bit of latency.


Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:15 am
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^^
yall stupid

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Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:15 am
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What I want to know is why Samus's roll speed is the slowest in the game.
She's literally designed to roll around. Morph ball is one of the first upgrades you get in the Metroid games. She really should be able to roll faster than at least most of the other characters, if not to be the fastest roll rather than the slowest.

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Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:30 pm
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A poor roll always has been one of Samus's biggest weaknesses and it will propably always be that way. Project M actually went ahead and gave her a "regular" roll and made Morph Ball her crawl (and then added Boost Ball as a crawl attack, but thats a different topic), but I digress.

Consider this: Beta Samus as she is right now with her giant hitboxes, insane damage output and pseudo-transcendent projectiles is a nightmare to approach for many characters. But once you get in she kinda struggles to effectively push you back out into her preferred range outside of a lagless Frame 1 Zair (yeah, thats as silly as it sounds) to regain her footing. If she had the fastest roll in the game you would migitate that major weakness of the character by a huge amount simply because she would have a relatively safe option to escape pressure. Samus always thrived at mid-range but generally lacks in close quarters combat and resetting back to a neutral position. Removing her struggle to safely regain space and giving her a strong (or at least useful) tool to go back to mid-range effectively doesnt sound like a great idea in my book, and this is coming from a guy who despises her roll for the exact reason you gave :chibirobo:

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Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:18 pm
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TSF|Skylar wrote:
A poor roll always has been one of Samus's biggest weaknesses and it will propably always be that way. Project M actually went ahead and gave her a "regular" roll and made Morph Ball her crawl (and then added Boost Ball as a crawl attack, but thats a different topic), but I digress.

Consider this: Beta Samus as she is right now with her giant hitboxes, insane damage output and pseudo-transcendent projectiles is a nightmare to approach for many characters. But once you get in she kinda struggles to effectively push you back out into her preferred range outside of a lagless Frame 1 Zair (yeah, thats as silly as it sounds) to regain her footing. If she had the fastest roll in the game you would migitate that major weakness of the character by a huge amount simply because she would have a relatively safe option to escape pressure. Samus always thrived at mid-range but generally lacks in close quarters combat and resetting back to a neutral position. Removing her struggle to safely regain space and giving her a strong (or at least useful) tool to go back to mid-range effectively doesnt sound like a great idea in my book, and this is coming from a guy who despises her roll for the exact reason you gave :chibirobo:


That's actually a really good explanation! Thank you!
I found out from Izaw that you can instead shorthop and airdodge to get rid of the slow-roll problem.

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Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:41 pm
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you know he's talking about ssf2 samus... right?

anywho.

I predict that in the next update that they are going to nerf Fair to do like 15% and greatly reduce the hitbox. and "fix" Charge shot.
Now assuming this is true, you guys know how bad samus will be? Like god awful. bottom 10. I bet that they won't even buff her other aerials to compensate.
So not only would I be unhappy, but every other spamming mofo who picked up samus in beta would be unhappy too...

best case scenario we get a direct rip from 9b with some simple stat buffs and nerfs such as %damage. and Dthrow having less base KB and a higher KBG

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Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:34 pm
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MaskofTruth wrote:
you know he's talking about ssf2 samus... right?

anywho.

I predict that in the next update that they are going to nerf Fair to do like 15% and greatly reduce the hitbox. and "fix" Charge shot.
Now assuming this is true, you guys know how bad samus will be? Like god awful. bottom 10. I bet that they won't even buff her other aerials to compensate.
So not only would I be unhappy, but every other spamming mofo who picked up samus in beta would be unhappy too...

best case scenario we get a direct rip from 9b with some simple stat buffs and nerfs such as %damage. and Dthrow having less base KB and a higher KBG

Oh don't be so bitter... They might still fix charge shot so that it kills at 100% off stage, in stead of 60% in the middle. Fair will still be a good combo move, even if it gets nerfed to only do 15% on full hits. I would still main Samus if she got nerfed to sh1t.

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Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:21 pm
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Samus' uptilt no longer kills :)


Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:22 am
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Gohma wrote:
Samus' uptilt no longer kills :)


But her dash attack can though.

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Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:08 am
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to remark on samus changes; acceptable. Not as fluid and melee orientated as I had hoped, but at least she is no longer a 1 trick pony

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Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:28 am
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